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                <text>A. Willard Joyce, Dunlevy C. Downs, Mrs. Dunlevy C. Downs, Guy D. Thompson, Walter W. Warner, Ernst von Schwerdtner, and C. Carey Jarman around a Dinner Table at  Homecoming, St. John's College, Annapolis, Maryland, 1970</text>
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                    <text>fiBOUT PLAT0 1 S

PHILEBL~§.

A lecture given by
Jacob Kl ein
a t St. John's College
May 20, 197·1

To speak about a Platonic dialogue, about a Platonic dialogue,
means t o do violence to it.

A sense of guil t will,

be

t herefore~

a continuous source of pain within me while I am speaking.

But I

cannot resist ths temptation to shed some light, some moonlight ,
as it were, on the

P~ileb~.

I hope you will forgive ma-- I cannot--

for sounding extremely pedantic, for speaking much longer than I
should, end for making it sometimee very diff icult for you to follow.
Let me state fi ve basi c points on which my talking about the Philebus
will rest.
First: a Platonic dial ogue is not a treatise or the text of a

lectur e; it is not comparable in this respect t o a work of Aristotle
or, for t hat matter , to any of Plotinus' Enneads as edited by Porphyry.

A Platonic dialogue is usually a drama, a mime 9 i n which what

happens cannot be separated from what is said and argued about.
,§.econdly : however s erious the purpose and the content of a

Platon ic dial ogue , its seriousness is permeated by playfulnsss; indeed, as

~1e

can read in t he sixth letter attributed to Plato , serious-

ness and play a.re

The comica l aspect of a Platonic d i a iog ua

.§l;ste :r~·

can never be completely disregarded.

l.bl!:.9.1Y;

no Platonic dialogue can be said to r epresent

be called and ha s been called _:the "Platonic doctrine."
(Soph.
254C )

~1hat

might

The dlalcgue

may well hint, though never 11 wi t h perfect clarity, " at gsnui t:21 a::d

ulti mate thoughts of Pla to, the thinker.

The

S ae~,

for

example~

does that most certainly. · But an unimpeachable source provides us
with more direc t

inform~tion

ever put down in wr itinga

about Plato 1 s thinking t hat he himself

Thi s source is Aristotle, who spent t wenty

years at that place of leisure, the Academy, and heard what Plato
hi mself sai d.

I assume that we have to pay a ttention to Aristotle's

r eports , never forgattin.9. that Aristotle has his E.!:!.!l way of describing other peoplesv thoughts, a peculiar t erminol ogy

r o~ted

in his

�-2~Q.

thinking and not ln the thinking of those other people s.bout luhom

he reports.
Fourthl_y: i n the las t

t tt10

c enturies scholars; not all 1 but moat

of them, have tried to understand the Platonic dialogues as belonging
to different stages of a "development" in Plato's own thinking.

Now,

it is of course possible that Pl ato, in his l ong life, changed his
views on many and perhaps even on moat important poi nts.
follow a Platonic dialogue means to take it as it

~'

But to

as one

whole~

i n which the i nterlocut ors play a definite and unique role and in
which uihat is

s~

and what is happening does not depend on anythlng

that is said and is happening in any other dialogue.

Before we could

understand any "development" in Plato's thinking, it is i ncumbent on
us to understand each dialogue in its £!:.1ill. terms.

This understanding

is not helped by assignirn} a dialogue to a certain period in Plato's
Yet, in the case of the Philsbuet it will not be unimportant

life.

to t ake no t ice of the time this dialogue was written--no t in order to
track some "deve lopmental " deviation i n Plato's thinkingj but merely
t o establish whether certain statements in the dialogue may refer to
somebodyvs conspicuous behavior within the Academy in Plato's later

days.
is

And, happily enough, there i s general agreement that the

a~

Phileb~e

dialogue, although some of the reasons for this da ting might

be questionable.
[i.fthly: every word in a Platonic dialogue counts, and for some-

body in the dialogue to remain silent may count even more.
talking

.~9.2l-!1

That's why

a dialogue must necessarily r emain insuff icient .

And now let us approach the

Philebu~.

The conversation takes place

in Athens; we do not learn exactly where; it may be at a gymnastic
school or at a wrestling school.

1.ofJ.9.

What we read is a Eart of a

conversation which begins s ome time in the afternoon.

three i nterlocutors ;

Socrates~

~§t:i

The~e

are

Protarchus, Philebus; many young men ,

half a dozen or a dozen per ha ps, are listening.

Socrates is,

well~

Sacrates--a man deuoteci ta inquiries and discussions and a friend

�About Pl:~d;b' s .!:b.!1~9.L.f~

and lover of youth.
Call:Las.

Protarchua is the son of m well known Athenian,

Philebue is nnt f&lt;no1iln at all.

He is one of t.ha fe1,t1

person~·

ages in the Pl ato nic di alogues 3 like Calliclea, Diotima, Timaeus, invented by Plato; if they do not remain

nameless~

like the Stranger from

Elea and the Stranger from Athens, their names are appropriately coined.
The name of Philebua indicates that he is a "lover of youth"--as Socrates
(168)

is.

Philebus seems to be young, but slightly older than Protarchus and

all the l is tening young men around them.
The title of the dialogue as it has been handed down to us is Philebus.
This title is never mentioned in the writings of Plato's contemporaries.

Aristotle refers to what is

times, mentioning Plato once.

~

in the dialogue at least eight

There seems to be no reason , however,

to doubt that the title qPhilebus" is genuine.

Moreover, there is

one good reason which speaks forcefully for its authenticity.
dialogue contains
did).

.£.i.36~

The

lines (I did not count them, but somebody

Of these 2,369 lines only 23 are spoken by Philebus (those I

counted).

He raises his voice altogether only 14 t imese

circumstances, who else but

~~

for the title cf the dialogue?

Under these

could have chosen the name of Philebus

There will be more to say about this

matter later on.

The main question raised in the dialogue is:
~?

What is the best human

And this question has to cope primarily with the all-pervasive

feeling of
mocking us.

~~

common to all living beings--haunting,

filling~

All of us--without exception--want to be pleased in

thousands and thousands different ways:

we Beek to lie down or to ait

comfortably; we like hearing things that flatter us; we en joy good
companyt witty

words~

good drink and food; we delight in traveling 1

in going to the theater or to the movies, in looking at beautiful
things; we love caresses, precious gifts, wild emotions; we loose
ourselves wi th rapture in exerting
ecstasies, and so

on~

and so on.

power~

in sexual s atisfaction 3 in

A list of pleasures like the one I

have just given is not to be found in the dialogue, but an infinite
number of possible pleasures is implied in the arguments we are facing.

�-4--

It is Philebus who looks at Pleasure as the highest good, who sees
in Pleasure not only the best of human possessions, but the goal after
which all liv:i.ng beings strive.

( if

I

Pleasure (17001''1) is the goddess he

And quite a few of us, I think, follow him.

worships.

Secretes does not.

Ha contends that there is something better and

more desirabfe than pleasure, to wit, thoughtfulness in deciding how
to act (t~ ~eovttv), the apprehending of what is intelligible only
(~o vo~~v ) , !be power of memory ("to )At:f"Y~~IJ"') and that which is akin

to these, right opiniQD_ (i~l« 1'e0~ ) and l!'ue calculations (JJ...,e;;"Ls
Jioit..o-µo~ ); but Socrates carefully adds that these powers are better

and more desirable than pleasure for those beings who are able to
share in the.s e powers; only to beings who have this ability will these
powers be profitable , now and in the future.
This juxtaposition of both contentions, of that of Philebus and of
that of Socrates, is made by Socrates very shortly after we begin
reading.
( 11 A)

"See,

It is introduced by Socrates with the following words:

then~

Protarchust what the assertion is which you are .!l£!£. to

accept from Philebus, and what our assertion is, against which you
are to argue, if you do not agree with it.
of each of them?"
logue.

Shall we give a summary

These words are the very first words of the dia-

But what strikes us immediately is that they cannot be under-

stood as indica ting the beginning of a conversation; they just continus
what was said before; if they were the beginning of a conversation, the
vocativa Tie~"&amp;t(eXfl

would be preceded by

Z (Z lfe~f".txfjE,

and not simply

lleJr:Q{e~E); and the words "then" (cf~) and "now" (yl)yt) would not be
used.

Listen again:

which you

are~

true beginning.

"See,

~t

Protarchus, what the assertion is

to accept from Philebus ••• "

The dialogue has no

Nor does it have a true ending.

sentence we read spoken by Protarchus:

This is the last

"There is still a little left,

Socrates; you will certainly not give up before we do, and I shall remind you of what remains. "

We do not yet understand why the dialogue

has no beginning and no ending.

But we see (and this is important),

�About Plato's

..

Ebi:.!EJ~ ~

when we begin reading, that Protarchus hes to take over the thesis
upheld by Philebus.

More about

th~t

later.

Enjoyment and thoughtfulness are the two banners that Protarchus and

(111&gt;)

Socrates are respectively waving.

The life of pleasure and the life

of thoughtfulness face each other.

But it becomes clear immediately

that Socrates is considering some other life superior to both of them.
He will keep reverting to this third life.

It will finally be described

in the last pages of the dialogue.
What follows the juxtaposition of the two views, that of Philebus and
Protarchus on the one hand and that of Socrates on the other, is

Socrates' insistence that pleasure has many different aspects:
(12C)

"For,

when you just simply hear her named, she is one thing, but surely she
takes on all sorts of shapes which are, in a way,

.!:In~

Socrates gives two simple, though significant, examples;

each other."
the pleasures

of a licentious man are very different from those of a self-restrained
man, who enjoys his very self-restraint; the pleasures of a fool are
very different from those of a thoughtful man, who enjoys his very

thoughtfulness.

No, says Protarchus, the sources of pleasure may be

different, may have an opposite character, but "how can pleasure help

(120/E) being of ail things most like pleasure, that is, like itself."

Yes,

says Socrates, color and figure are what they are, but colors and
figures can be very, very different and even, in the case of colors,
most opposed to each other, like black and white.

see how this could make him change his mind.
third

time~

Protarchus does not

Socrates tries for the

this time incisively, anticipating what will be said later

in the dialogue.
are pleasant.

No argument, he says, disputes that pleasant things

But Protarchus' contention, which upholds Philebus'

conviction, implies that all pleasant things are g_ood.

That's what

is wrong.

Pleasant things are for the most part bad and only some

are good.

But youj Protarchus, says Socrates, call all of them

good, although you might be forced by the argument to agree that they
are otherwise different.

Protarchus tacitly admits that pleasures

may be very different from each other, and even opposed to each other,

but

�sticks to his main poi nt t hat pleasure s , inas much as they are
~j

are ahiays good .

At this point Socrates goes back to his own contention, namely that
1b.?J:19htfulnsss (&lt;f&gt;eov~€tS) and ~! apprehen~ion of the i~elligi~~
(voos) are good. He adds to these--for the first time--knowledoe

--

(i ~t ~~1pi) end predicts that many kinds of knowledge will come to

the f ore, some among t hem unlike each other.

Should it turn out that

some are even opposed to each other, could he, Socrates , t hen cling
to the poi nt that all knowledge is alike and--not unlike Pro t archus-11 save himself" in an absurdity?
Protarchus is pleased that both, his assertion and that of Socrates,
receive the same treatment and is now willing to grant that there are
many different pl easures just as there are many diff erent knowledges

(we have to note ths.t he does not mention oeposite pleasur es and knowledges).
Socrates i s satisfied with Protarchus ' concession about the manynsss
within knowledge and within pleasure and spsaks as follows:
(148)

no

concealment~

"With

thent Protarchus, of the differentiation within my

good and within yours, but facing it squarely, let us be bold and
see if per chance, on examination, it will tell us whether we should
s ay t ha t the good is pleasure or t houghtfulness or some ot her ihird
thing. 11

It is the second time that Socrates reverts to the poss i bilit y

that something third may be th e bes t cf human poss ess ions.

He pro-

ceeds by strengthening this statement by an assertion whi ch has a
wide, wide range.

This is one·of the transitions in which the dialogue abounds (Parenthetical remark: in the 2nd century A.O. Galen wrote a treatise enti tled ''On the transitions i n the Philebus, " which is unfortunately
not extant ).
f ac:ing.

let me s ay a f ew words a bout the transi t:ton we are now

�-1-

Up to this point the talk was about things most familiar to all of us,
about pleasure and about thoughtfulness and about knowledge, this last
word taken in its colloquial and vague sense.
about our lives in this our world.

The talk was concerned

What Socrates is undertaking now

is to lift the conversation to a level of all-embracing universality,
disregarding pleasure and knowledge altogether .

He will come back to

them after a short while and then launch out to an even higher level.

Why does he do that?

The answer is:

to find the ultimate sources of

what is so close to us and usually unquestioned by us.

The dialogue

seeks to link the most common to the most uncommon and fundamental.
To find the link will require a great deal of vigor on Socrates' part.
The manyness within pleasure and within knowledge leads Socrates to re( 14C)

mind Protarchus of the "astounding" assertions that "many are one"
that "one is many."

and

There is nothing par ticularly surprising and diffi-

cult about these assertions if they refer to visible and tangible things,
which come into being and perish.

A man, for example, is

also many, because he has many members and parts.
intelligibles, the £ l'ott

on~,

but he is

But when we consider

of things, the "invisible looks," which can

be encountered only in speech (f&gt;I Ao~ ti ) , and each one of which is one
and unique, the "ona and many" problem becomes extremely perplexing
(Socrates me ntions four of the intelligibles:
the One
young

Beauty~

man~

the _Qne Go.2.£).

the

~Man,

the One Ox,

That's where the trouble sets in.

Any

says Socrates, challenging those present, any young man, once

he has tasted the flavor of that perplexity and thinks he has found a
treasure of wisdom, does net spare anyone, neither himself, nor his parents, nor any human being, who can hear him, and joyfully sets every
possible argument in motion, confounding everybody.
(16A)

Protarchus feels hit.

"Do you not see 9 Socrates," he says, "how many we are and that we are all
young men?

Are you not afraid that we shall join with Philebus and at-

tack you, if you revile us?"

But Socrates' challenge works.

Protarchus

wants Socrates to find a better road than was used up to now and to lead
them on.
Socrates retorts that there is a better road , which he

alwa~1s

loved,

�which is easy to point out, but very difficult to follow.

Whatever

human art has discovered had been brought to light through it.
Socrates' description of this batter road marks a new transition
in the dialogue.
Socrates calls this

same Prometheus

r~ad

tog~ther

a "gift of gods to men," which we owe to
with some gleaming fire (let me remind you:

Prometheus stole the fire he ga\1e to men)~

The ancients, who were

better than we and lived nearer the gods, says Socrates with deadpan
seriousnessi have handed down to us the tradition that all the things
which are ever said to exist are sprung from.Q.o.[ and MailY and have,
I
"'
P
)
inherent in their nature, Limit (lft;fd..J) and Infinitude (oUTE'-ft..&lt;Jl •
JI

We shall come back to this point in a little while.

What Socrates

emphasizes now is that we must , in every case, look for .si!le e 'f Jos
(he uses the word

t J~... hare) and next for two,,

if there be t1JJO, and

if not, for 1hree or some other .J]JJ!nber; and we must treat each of

these &lt;:J~J"., ir'l the same way, that is~ subdivide each of them~

until

11

we can see that the original one is not just one and many and infinite,

( ·1 60)

but also

12.9~

farewe ll ta the

it is."

Then we may bid farewell to infinity, bid

Lf€et of infinity .

Protarchus wants Socrates to clarify what he has said. No wonder!
Socrates provides this clarification by pointing to the letters of
the alphabet. The sound which we emit through our mou'\::.h can be called
one, yet it is infinite in diversity. A god or a godlike man, as an
Egyptian story tells, observed, however 9 that there are distinct
vowel sounds, semi-vowel sounds and consonants- -in Greek 7 vowels,
OY $OY\ta..,'l;.f
3 semi=vowelsA(~je,~)~
and 14 consonants~ more exactly 10y if we include
I \
the rough breathing sound h and exclude the 5 double consonants. This
means that be tween the oneness and the infinitude of s ound there are
definite numbers of sounds. One has to know all of them to possess
the arl of reading and writing. Socrates !!llllPhasi~ the !J.1£!!ber~ of
sounds and letters. But this example of the al phabet and the example
cf the numbers of musical intervals, which Socrates also gives j are

�AboL1t P.lat o 1 s f,11,i];_eig!L§_

meant to let Protarchus and Philsbus and us understand that t here are
numbers in the realm of the
(560-E)

't'[.., .

Lab::ir

in the dialogue Socrates

will clearly distinguish between numbers of unequal units , that is,
numbers of sensible things, and pure mathematical numbers of units,
that is, of units which do not differ at all from each other.

But

(sse esp. we learn from Aristotle that Plato also spoke of eidetic number s , of
~· XIV,

numbers of units which are themselves nothing but ~fd~

3, 1090·e.

find them means tc embark upon that better, but difficult road.

• To try to

32 ff.)

Protarchus and Philsbus do not under stand what is going on.
especially does not see

theme of

lLlhat the

~'

Philebus

which Socrates has

i n jected into the discussion, has to do with the alternative of pleasure and t houghtfulness, which was in question.

Socra tes reminds him

that t hey were wondering how each of them , pleasure as well as thought( 18E)

ful ness, was one and many, and whether "each of them possessed a number
before becoming infinite, " that is to say, whether there were

~I t

of

Gt~~

pleasure as well as of thoughtfulness, which then are dispersed among
beings that continually come into being and perish and that live their
li ves in pleasure and thought.
Protarchus is perturbed.

He understands what Socrates i s after.

He

cannot find an answer to the question. He wants Philebus to answer it.
And he formulates the question as follows; "I think Socrates is asking
(198)

us whether there are or are not

and of what sort they
(198)

does not utter a wo1-d.
true, son of Cal l ies."

a ~ e,

f;

ri..,

of pleasure t how many there are

and the same of thoughtfulness."

Philebus

But Socrates remarks: "What. you e.ay is most
He underscores the importance cf this fact by

addressing Protarchus ceremonially as son of Callias.
Protarchus is intent on bringing the discussion about pleasure and
thoughtfulness to a satisfactory end.
Socrates

promis~

was reached.

This

We learn from what he says that

that he would stay on and not go home before this end
ptomis~

must have been given, we have to assume ,

during the discussion which preceded what we read in the di alogue, and

we should not forget that.

Protarchus demands that Socrates s top per-

plexing him and the other young men and decide either to divide him-

�self pleasure and knowledg e i nto t.heir

.;1'ii1 E£

t o let th,st go, if

there bs some other way to solve the matte r s at iss ue among them.
Socrates is willing to do the latter, end this marks a new t ransition
in the dialogt1e.

Socrates claims playfully that some god has just reminded him of some
talk about pleasure and thoughtfulness, which he heard when he was
dreami ng or perhaps when hs was awake.

What he heard saying was that

neither pl easure nor thoug htfulnes s was t he good, but some t hird thing,
differe nt from both and be t ter than both.
that Socr a tes himself had in t imated t his
the

~

time.

We remember , cf cour se ,
twi c~ .

If this could be clearl y shown

He doe s i t new for
now~

s ays Socrates,

pleasure would not be the victor and it would no longer be necessary
to divide pleasure into its

'l"J., .

And Socrates adds that, while the

discussion proceedsj this will become still
What f oll ows leads to thr ee insights:

cle a r~~.

1) i t is the l ot of the Good and

only of the Good to be s elf-suff icient;

2) if we take the l i fe of plea-

sure and the t ho ughtful life separately, so that t he li f e of pl easure
is totally divested of any thought, any knowledge, any opi nion, any
memory, and the thoughtful life, on the other hand, totally untouched
by any pleasure, both lives--in this bare fo rm--cannot be conceived as

self-sufficient, as desi ra bl e and as good;

3) only a l ife made up of

a mixture of pleasure and th oughtfulne ss and sharing in both will be
the kind cf life everybody would choose.- Lat me remark t ha t Socra t es
and al s o Protarc hue list under the power s associated wi th thoughtf ulness t he power of a pprehending the intell ig iblas,va~s, which in common
parlance may s imply mean sood sense .
role for quite a wh ile.

This term will now play a central

Socrates concludes:

it has bsen sufficiently

shown that Philebus' goddess, Pleasure, cannot be considered identical
(22C)

with the good.

Thereupon Ph ilebus raises his voice:

"nor is your va~s

th e good, Socra tes ; it will be open to the same ob jections. "

(22C-D )

hear Socrates' :reactiom

''!ti you s

Let us

perhaps, Philebus ; but not s o the

�·-1 ·1-

,..

!£.Y..e vovL, which is also ~l.rJ...~J th at one, I guess, is different. I
do not as yet claim for the vo~s the prize of victory over the combined
life, but we must look and see tJJhat is to be done about the §_§!cond prize."
Socrates goes on, still speaking to Philebus:

(220}

put forward a claim, one that

vous

"Each of us might perhaps

is ,E_ssponsible for this combined

life, is its cause, the other that pleasure is:

and thus neither of

these two would be the good, but one or the other of them might be re-

[Of the combined lify." Then, turning to Protarchus, Socrates claims he might keep up his fight against Philebus in
garded as the

.£.~~

an even stronger way and might contend "that in this mixed life it is
vo~f

that is more akin and more similar than pleasure to that, what-

ever it may bet which makes that life both desirable and good."

As to

pleasure, he adds, "it is farther behind than the third place, if J!OC
( l l E.)

~

yous

is at all to be trusted at present."

The emphasis in this passage is clearly on the terms vcv S and "cause"
(oc~ri.ov). What remains unclear is the sense in which the term "cause"
is to be taken and the rank to be attributed ul timately to the voDs •

And let us not for a moment forget Socrates' own vovr.
Socrates suggests that it might be better to leave pleasure and not to
pain her by testing her i n the most precise lllay and thus proving her in
the wrong .

Protarchus disagrees.

Socrates asks whether Protarchus

disagrees because he, Socrates, spoke of 2aini119. pleasure.

second time that pain is mentioned in the dialogue.

It is the

It is done jokingly.

Pain was mentioned for t he first time when Socrates dealt with the
thoughtful life, totally untouched by pleasure.
was this:

(210/E)

and

The way he put it then

"would anyone be willing to live possessing thoughtfulness

vov5 and knowledge and perfect memory of all things, but having

no share, great or small,

in

pleasure, or in ee.in, for that matter, but

being utterly unaffected by eve rything of that sort?"

The question,

which is supposed to be negated, when put in this farm1 actually involves a difficulty:

one

~ould

perhaps be willing to accept a thought-

ful pleasureless life, which does not involve us in any pain.

The

third time pain will be mentioned is going to show pain as a close companion of pleasure and as a real evil.

Protarcihus says he

i~

not

�~·12-

shocked by Socrates' phrase "paining pleasure," but rather by Socr ates'
apparent attempt to stop talking about pleasure altoge ther and because
(238)

Socrates does not seem to understand "that not one of us will let you
go yet until you have brought the argument about these matters to an
end."

This is the second time Socrates is warned about leaving too

early.
Whew, Socrates exclaims, and predicts that a .long and difficult discussion lies ahead of them.

To fight the battle of the '/OUS for the

second prize requires new weapons in addition to those already used.
A new beginning has to be made, and this wili mean a new transition in
the dialogue .
Let us be on our guard in making this beginning, says Socrates, and we
should ind eed pay attention to these words.

Secretes suggests that

everything tha t now exists in the world be distributed in a twofold, or
rather in a threefold way.

The results of this distribution are very

different from each other.
.

W

They are called by

Soc~ates,

indiscriminately

I

and unpreciselyt~ti~ or rev~, which I shall translate by the word
"tribes," The first two have been mentioned before as a kind of Promethean gift:

the ''limitless" (ro ~7it:,fo"1) and the "limit" (r~

The third is the mix ture of these two into one.
literally, as we shall see in a moment:
now Socrates adds:

n/e°'S ).

This is not to be taken

let us be on our guard.

And

"But I cut a considerably ridiculous figure, I

(230)

think, when I attempt a separation into tribes and an enumeration."

(230)

Protarchus wonders why.
needed besides."

Socrates:

"It seems to me, a fourth tribe is

It turns out that Socrates means the cause of the

commixture of those first two.

And Protarchus, who is eager to supply

even a fifth, namely the power of separation, is told in affable words
that this fifth is not needed now, but that if it be needed later, he
should excuse Socra tes for going after it.

The mentioning of Protarchus'

proposal and the way of handling it cast a doubt on the necessity of the

�.£.~·

fourth tribe, the

The:r.e might be something strange and even

ridiculous indeed about that.

We should be on cur guard.

,,,

'

Let us consider one of the first tu10 tribes, namely r:o
The following English translations are all adequate:

etffEleo'/.

the limitless,

the endless, the boundless, the unlimited, the infinite, the innumerable,
And we must not forget the homonym

the indefinite, the indeterminate .
( 17E)

:"''foS ,

meaning the inexperienced one, upon which word Plato does not

fail to pun.
...

I

As to the second tribe, co ffG(!«f, the "limit," it becomes almost immediately apparent that, although Socrates keeps using this term, he

,,also

SUbstituteS for it the phrase "that Which has limit, II

G~ov,

that is to say, the "limited."

Protarchus and the other young

men as well as we are somewhat confused.
gate how each of

them~

'C"O n€efl&lt;.J

Socrates-proposes to investi-

the "limitless" and the "limited," are both "one

and many"; for he contends that each one of them is split up and scat(24A)

tered into many.
again:

He starts with the "limitless," warning Protarchus

"Whet I ask you to consider is difficult and debatable."

Hare are special cases of this

tribe~

parts of its manyness:

"hotter

and colder," "quicker and slo111er, 11 "greater and smaller," "exceedingly
o&lt;l

and slightly, 11 "excessive and lacking."

In each of them there is "the

more as well as the less"

JCrt:c.

constantly

' J,bt&lt;&gt;.&gt;.ov
,.. ,,
(t"o _

"ft

"

~

'J-C-'f:o~).

and never stationary--in sharp contrast to what

.§_~vancins

is determined by a fixed number, by just "that much":

s

number advances, it cease¢ to exist.
•

the expression i-"

Each of them is

A

,

~JI.\ o 11 i"G

1&lt;"'
\

~

VJ

if such a

What captures our attention is

r; r: o Y •

This expression is meant

to gather together the tribe of the "limitless" and to put upon it the
(25A}

seal of a single nature.

It is used six times in the passage we are

now considering and once more much later on.
is omitted.

~

the particle

-Cf..

This omission focuses our attention on the use of this

particle in all the other cases.
are all in the dual.

The verbs related to this expression

And Socrates summarizes pointedly:

11

by this

�- 14(240)

argument the hotter and its ,Qppostt_!! become together limitless. 11

The

"limitles~'

is a pair.

The expression "the more as well as the

lass, 11 as the seal of a single nature, seals a ,E~~U·..~Y..· And this
duality remains completely indeterminate. The "limitless" is an
indeterminate pairq
But what abou,t the "limit," on the one hand, and the "limited," that
"which has limit," on the other?

Lat us take the "limited" first.

It

is, as Socrates quite clearly states, contrary to "the more as well as
(25A/B)

the less"; it is the egual, and egualiU, the double, and any number in
firm relation to another number or a measure in firm

(250/E)

~lation

to ano-

ther measure, that is, everything which "puts an end to the variability
between the opposites and makes them proportionable and harmonious by
the introduction of number."
We understand that what Socrates means by this tribe of the "limited"
is what we read in the

5~

Book of Euclid 1 s Elements.

This book is in

all probability either a perhaps somewhat condensed copy of an original
f.l.rist.
Met. XII,
8jl073 b
1"lff.

P!oclus,
in Eucl.
Cornm.

(Teubner)
pp.67,2ff
Arist.
£]_st. I,9,
991a14ff.
i\!ic. Ethe
X,2,11'72 b

9ff.

work of Eudoxus or imitates this work.

Who is Eudoxus?

He was born

in Cnidus, on the shores of Asia Minor, came to Athens and stayed at
Plato's Academy for a while.

He was an astronomer, a mathematician,

and a geographer; he firmly established the doctrine of ratios and
proportions, including those of numerically incommensurable magnitudes;
he tried to "mix" the E: (/ti. , as understood by Plato, with all the sensible things 9 and--what is most important to us--he declared plsastire to
be the supreme 9,.'2.,0d•
Philebus.

But pleasure was not his goddess, as she is for

Eudoxus, as Aristotle reports, "seamed to be a man of excep-

tional temperance, and hence he was thought to uphold this view not because he was a lover of pleasure, but because it seemed to him that it
was so in truth."

Socrates, as we see in the dialogue, disagrees.

The tribe of the "limited" then consists of ratios.

The tribe of the

�About Plato 's

-15-

(260)

scattered n11mitles s, 11 of the

~,r

~f11€H

eov1 ~

£Ql1film~.

in .Hs inf5.ni ta manyness

found its unity in the esal of "the more and its cppcsite, 1' that is,
in "the more as well as the less."

Th e tribe of the "limited," the

manyness of determinate ratios, has not yet found its unity.
(258)

This unity

was only postulated, was only, as Socrates says, "referred to."
;i

/

was indeed a direct "reference" to the "limit" itself ( titS wo
And Socrates concludes:
(260)

There

..,

11"r!i(!clf ) •

"The limit did not contain a multitude nor did

we feel a difficulty that it might not be £l..D2. by nature."
It is at this point that we might turn to Aristotle's reports about
Plato's unwritten words t o conf irm what we found in the dialogue and

to win greater clarity.

b

987. '2628

In the

Plato:

5th

chapter of the 1st book of the

~aphysi.£,~ Aristotle

says of

"it is peculiar ta him [.f.e. Plat_g7 to pos±t a duality instead

of the single Limitless, and to make the Limitless consist of
and the Small• 111

In the 3rd book of the

Phys~cs ~

1

the Great

111hsre Aristotle dis-

cusses t he liJifil(!rn'
"'
at great length, we read in the 4th chapter again:
203a15

11

For Plato there are two Infinites, •the Great and t he Small.'"

We see

thus confirmed what we read in the Philebus, except that Aristotle, in
his own way 1, usas the words "great 11 and "small" without their comparative
(cf. 37C
and)

forms.

He keeps using these words, in speaking about Plato , at many

other places.

But, what is more important, in Books XIII and XIV of

the Metaehysic:s Aristotle mentions several times two
he puts it, out of which, according to Pl ato,

11

11

elements, 11 as

numbers" are derived.

We have to understand that Aristotle has in mi nd "eidetic numbers , "
assemblages of '~ 141 •
&lt;('»I

C'

These ttim sources are the "indeterminate dyad"

I

'C/

(ff] ii'l.C1ftl'.n::o5 G1votS') and the "one" (i:q ~Y').

minate pair of the
of the

L imitl e s s~

P hil~

in the

11

We recognize the indeter-

i ndeterminate dyad," the duality

"the more as wel l as the less."

But we see now that

what was named the 1'limi t 11 in the Philebus can also be named "the One ."
What Aristotle calls the "elements" can be called the ultimate

sou:r:~

�-16-

of everything, that which has the

fi~

rank bot.h as

be~

and

~CJ....£.,£Wers. That is what is meant by ~'~l'X&gt;-7 ~ in common parlance
as well as in most thoughtful speech. We should not assume, I think,
that Plata h&amp;.d a definitely fixed name for each of these iie:&lt;{'M{. The
terms }Pe Good, the One, the Precis~, th~..§..~~, tpe Li~it, and
perhaps the Whole are all suited to one of the :Ce)(~:, depending on
' X'1/ ,
the cont.ext i.n which they are used. As to the names of the second tXf
the "indeterminate Dyad," "the more as well as the less, 11 and the Other
(which also implies a duality) seem all of them no less suitable. In
the Philebus Socrates, in putting a seal on the tribe of the &gt;/.
Of..'TT(f;(t!_ov ,
makes its intrinsic character perfectly cleai. But the character of
I'
the 114f(;~S, the "limit , 11 remains obscured.
as

Now lat us take up the third
and of the "Limit."

tribe~

the "mixture" of the "Limitles s"

What does "mixing" here mean?

two :Z{X,6}(.~r the "Limitless~" the

11

5.ndsterminate dyad," and the "Limit,"

the "One," exert their power on each other.
described as follows.

It means that the

Wha t happens then may be

The "indeterminate dyad" duplicates the "One,"

that is to say, produces two entities , two E~J~ , duplicates each of
#
Nr
these E 1,./''1 --we may also say "divides" each of these E tQ7 --and keeps

Me~.XIII,7~

an duplicating-~we have to assume, up to a certain point. In Aristotle's
reports the "indeterminate dyad" is explicitly characterized as a daub~
ling power" (dvoJTcn/s). I t is the ultimate source of definite manyness,

1082 a 15
and

of "numbers," in the realm of the

B, 1083b36

the earlier passage, when Socrates first introduced t he Promethean gift

t:.f'57

as well as in

Oll:r

world.

In

of "infinitude" and of "limit" and urged that in every case a definite
&gt;I£

number of f:t o'1 had to be found (Bthe alphabet helping him to clarify
this point), there was hardly a discernible hint that the "Limitless"
with its doubl.ing power is responsible for the _mul tipl.i£lli of
&gt;tr

th~

Etol:f
You will remember that in this context the "limitless," the
infinite, l!las ultimately dismiss ed. Not so in the world in which we
live. What happens here is this: the "Limit," the "One," transforms
the "indet erminate dyad 11 .into a £ill~.Fmj~ one, that is to say ,
Q

�-1'1-

About Plato's

.P.hll.~

transforms the two constantly and indeterminately changing terms of ths
dyad into two stationary and determinate ones and keeps doing this,

illJ

produce st in other wordst a mtJltituds~ of~·

(3-S' DJ

Socrates can call the manyness of ratios "the offspring of the limit."

That's l1Jhy

We understand now what confused Protarchua and us u.rhen Socrates sub-

stituted "that which has limit," the "limited," for the

11

limit 11 itself.

The "limited," the assemblage of ratios, is already a part of the mixture, of the third tribe.
(26A}

But it represents a mixtur e or rather mix-

tures of a spacial kind, mathematicilpartnar ships that can give to parts
of the world we live in a certain rightness 9 ~smoue the excess and indefiniteness, and pr oduce balance and right measure.

Such mathematical

partnerships engender, for example, health, establish the entire _genuine
art of !I!Y~' bring about the temperate_.§eason~ and all the bounties of
our world, beauty and strength of the body and all the beauties of the
soul.

(.2 ~ £)

.

And Socratest addressing Philebus directly and speaking about
'

~

that proper partnership (@t 8~ JC@(. '1"'1 Y~f'L) Of mathematl.cal ratios, has

this to say~ "for this goddess, my beautiful Philebus, beholding the
(268-C) wanton violence and universal wickedness which prevailed 9 since there
was no limit of pleasures or cf excess in

,
order (VtJ,,t.GttS

,

""

~

IC.«t t'"~5tS)

them~

in which there is limito

us; I say 1 on the contrary, she kept us sa.fs."
(26C)

established law and
You say she exhausted

Socrates addresses

Phllebus 9 but we cannot help thinking of Eudoxus.

Philebus remains

completely silent.

"How does this appear

Socrates turns to Protarchus:

to you Protarchus?"

And Protarchus

answers~

"It is very much how I

feel, Socrates.''
Let us conclude:
mixture.

the common power of the two

&gt;
I
otef«~

determines the

Sometimes the community of this power is lacking.

Socrates turns now to the fourth tribe, the £!Use.

You will remember

that Socrates seemed somewhat reluctant to add this fourth to ths first
three.

And indeed, is there any need for H7

The common power of ths

�About P1 at o 1 s .E.hi~1'?.l!!!.

-18-

"Limitless" and the "Limit" appeared as the
of what it engendered in this mixture.

E~use

of the mixt..ure and

Listen now to Socrates' words:

(278/C) "Should I sound a false note if I called the fourth the £.OUse of the

mixture and generation?"

And listen to wha t Socrates one moment earlier

says with regard to all the first three tribes:
(278)

"That which fabricates

all these, the cause, we call the fourth, as it has been sufficiently
shown to be distinct from the others."
&gt;

That has not been shown at all!

/

How can ultimate sources, «f X""'' , be caused by something else? If
that were so, the first two tribes, the "Limitless" and the "Limit,"
would not be what they are.
The exploration of this fourth tribe, the "cause," is left e_endi11q, and
Socrates makes a new transition which helps him to turn backwards.
What was the purpose, he asks, of coming to the pcint they have reached?
They were trying to find out whether the second prize belonged to
pleasure or to thoughtfulness (&lt;;etv1ns).

They had posited, Socrates

reminds Protarchus and us , that the mixed life was the victor.

We can

see now, he con t inues, to which tribe it belongs, namely to the third
tr i be, formed by the mixture of all that is "limitless" and all that is

(2. 7 J)}

"bound by t he limit. 11

And now Socrates asks Philebus to which of the

three tribes his life of ummixed pleasure ,belongs.
this:

have pleasure and Eai.rr a limit or are they among the things which

admit "the mor e as well as the less"?
(27E)

Philebus' answer is:

"Yes, among

those which admi t the more; for pleasure would not be all the good, if
it were not limi t less in multitude and in the

(28A)

The full question is

replies:

'more~'"

"nor would e_ain, Philebus, be all the evil. 11

Socrates

d~yly

This is how pain

is introduced in t he discussion for the third time, and this time decisively.

For Socrates adds he would grant Philebus that both, pleasure

and pain, are in the tribe of the Limitless.
only pleasure, .!!.Q1 pain .

We note Philebus meant

Socrates' addition is decisive.

�-19-

About Plato's

Pleasure and pain are a limitless pair.

E.blJl!E..l:!.~

One of the consequences of this

't

finding ia that there are no ,,J~ of pleasu~e, in the strict sense o f
this word. We remember that Socrates had intimated that the discussion
would show in a clearer way why it would not be necessary to divide
pleasure into its

6rt1.

Socrates will use this term later on in dis-

cussing pleasure, but it will not have to be taken in its strict sense.
The next question Socrates asks Protarchus and Philebus is:
tribe thoughtfulness, knowledge and
(28A)
(288)

shall be assigned without

"For I think that our risk is not a small
one in finding or not finding the right answer to what is being asked
now." Philabus: "You exalt your own god, Socrates, you do." Socrates:
And you your goddess, my fi'.i:end. But the question calls for an answer,
impiety,

Socrates explains:

all the sama. 11

Protarchus intervenes and urges Philebus to answer.

Whereupon Philebus says:
(288)

vous

to what

my place?" This is the
look back for a

".Qi!L.vou not, Protarchus, choose to reply in
~

time Philebus raises his voice.

Let us

moment~

At the beginning of our reading we learn that Protarchus will defend
Philebus' thesis of pleasure, because Philebus himself, as Protarchus
says, "has grown tired" (the Greek word is ~J.71£[eVf&amp;&lt;.6, a pun on the word
~ff~&lt;fov).

Philebus has an opportunity to reg~et that
he spoke up again and calls upon his own goddess to witness that h~
does regret. When the "one and many" question comes up, Protarchus
remarks: "It is perhaps best for the inquirer not to disturb Philebus
( 15C)
in his sweet repose." And now he will be silent all the time, even
[tacit re- when pleasure, his goddess, is thoroughly discussed. What is he doing
ference t o
all this time? Just listenicg?
the prov er b:

A little later

PtJ

l&lt;lV(:;l"I l&lt;oC !j~l&gt;'

6~ lltf.µ.oovJ Protarchus has some difficulty in answering Socrates' last question,

namely to what tribe knowledge and voGs should be assigned, and asks
Socrates to answer this question himself . Socrates is willing. He
(28C)

declares :

11

\i.lhat you enjoin me to do is not difficult," and he repeats:

"It is easy."
(28C)

Let us be

~n

our guard.

All wise men agree, and thereby

really exalt themselves, says Socrates, that
and earth.

Socrates adds:

\lovs is king of heaven

"Perhaps they are right. 11

�About Plato 1 s E,hilebJ:!.S

-20·-

What follows is indeed an easy 9 but not too convincing "cosmological"
account \!Jhich ends with the statement that
the four tribes which was called

(30E)

again, "of all."
answer."

(30E)

"~aUJ!.~

And Socrates adds:

Protarchue:

veru,.S

belongs to that of

of all. n

Notice,

please ~

"nowi; you have at last our

"Yes, and a very sufficient one; and yet you

answered without my noticing it."

Socrates:

"Ves, Pratarchuss for

sometimes £!.ayins provides rest from serious pursuit. ir

We understand:

the "cosmological" account, which makes the voG$ the cause of all the
other tribes, was a playful account.

is the "divine

vov; "

We are not sure whether this Yovt

mentioned before.

And let us not forget

that, within the confines of human life, the best

voGs

could obtain

was the second prize.

Socrates concludes this entire discussion of the four tribes by point,..
ing to ~ovs and to pleasure. He does not mention anything pertaining
(31A)

to "limit" and to the "mixture." Let us r&amp;nernber, he says, "that vo-;;s
was akin to cause and belonged roughly speaking (&lt;rk~J~v) to this tribe
and that pleasure was itself limitless and belonged to the tribe which,
in and by itself, ~not and never will ha~ either beginning or
middle or end." Wa must add that this holds also for pain. As we
have seen, the dialogue , too, has neither a beginning nor an end, and
for that matter, no middle. The graph of a Platonic dialogue usually-not always--looks like this:

But the graph of the Philebus looks like this :

---

�-21 ...

The dialogue itself, taken as a drama, in wtdch we, the readers or
listeners, are involved, seems to resemble pleasure and pain.
it does that, it must be pleasurable and painful.

If

We will have to

But we need not wait to register the most important

wait and see ••• ~

result of the preceding discussion.

All the pleasures and pains,

small or great, which pervade our lives, reflect in their duality an
ultimate source, one of the ~eXD(.,t

,

namely the "indeterminate dyad."

It is thus that some of our most familiar and common experiences are
tied to one of the highest points human reflection can reach.
Socrates now abandons this high
A new transition is made.
been considered so far.

and turns to a much lower one.

l~vel

Only about a third of the dialogue has
I shall be able to proceed much faster from

The next task is to see, says Socrates, where each of them, that is,
Yo~j and pleasure, can be found and by means of what affection both
(318)

come into being, whenever they come into bein~. Note, please, that
,.
the vovf mentioned here is said to come into being and cannot,
therefore, be understood as the

~ternal

,...

divine vovt .

Socrates takes

pleasure first, and immediately adds that it is impossible to examine
pleasure sufficiently apart from pain.
Socratesv contention is that pain and pleasure emerge in the combined
tribe, the one, we remember, where the "limitless" and the "limit"
join together and form a mathematical partnership conducive to balance
and right measure.
(310)

When this balance is broken in us, living beings,

"a disruption of nature and a generation of pain also take place at
the same time."

''If, on the other hand, balance is being restored

and is returning to its own nature, pleasure is generated."

The

process of destruction is pain, and the process of restoration is
pleasure.

When we are being emptied, we are becoming hungry and

pained; when we are filling up again through eating, we are pleased.
And the same can be said of thirst.

It is shown later that it is

�-22 ...

!!£.i the body that hungers

oI·

thirsts or has any

sL1ch

the body cannot, therefore, be pained or pleased.
belong to the .!£!:ll, and to the soul only.

affectlon, that

Pleasure and pain

But sometimes, or rather

often enough, as in the case of hunger and thirst, the p9dy is involved.
Whenever this is the case, we face ontkind of pleasure and pain.
Another kind of pleasure and pain does not involve the body at all.
It arises within the soul itself as the sweet and cheering .b_oee of
pleasant things to come and as the fearful and woeful expectati.Q!l of
painful things to come.

Both, the pleasant and the painful expectations

originate within the soul in memory.

Socrates proceeds to give a

circumstantial description of this origin by passing from perception
to memory, to forgetfulness, to recollection, and finally to desire.
But he ands this passage by reverting to pleasure and pain
volve the body.

which in-

He points to a man who is empty and suffers pain,

but who, because of his memory, hopes to be filled again and enjoys
(368)

this hope.

"At such a time, then, a man, or any other living being,

has both pain and joy at once."

If, however, an empty man is without

hope of being filled, a twofold feeling of pain arises in him.
stress is on the duality of pleasure and pain.

The

The possibility of a

twofold pain and--although this is not mentioned--of a twofold pleasure emphasizes the duality

even more.

Let us not forget its ultim-

ate sourqa.
Looked at in this passage is also a life in which there is no feeling
of pleasure or pain at all, but only thoughtfulness and VOVf.

Such

a life had been considered much earlier in the dialogue and had been
rejected as totally undesirabia, lacking self-sufficiency and, there(338)

fore, goodness.

Now Socrates calls it "the most divine life."

tarchus chimes in:

Pro-

"Certainly it is not likely that gods feel either

joy or its opposite."

And Socrates agrees:

for either is unseemly for them."

"No, it is very unlikely;

Socrates adds that they may consider
....
this point later on, if it would help the argument; they might give yous

�credit for it in contending for the second prize.

We shall be watching .

A new transition takes placaa

(39E40C)

What follows can bs subdivided into
three parts, and the title that can be given to all of them is "On
false pleasures. " This is what happens in .E~t't 'l.,n.e.: Protarchus is
unwilling to agree that pleasures and pains could be false; he accepts
the possibility of false opinions, but rejects the possibility of
false fears, false expectations, and false pleasures; a lengthy discussion follows which culminates in the assertion that a just, pious
and good man, 11 a 11 fr i end of the gods, 11 has "true pleasures," while
an "unjust and thoroughly bad man" can only haus "fals e pleasures,"
which imitate the "true pleasures" to the point of r i dicule; and the
same can be said of pains.
This, now, is what happens in £.§_rt two:

we are reminded that pleasure

and pain are a limitless pair tied to "the more as well as the less";
any one who feels pleasure in any way always really feels pleasure;
but these pleasures may be felt as present pleasures and also as
beJ ~!.l

pleasures to

in the future; the latter ones may be false

because they may not come into being as expected, not as great and
intense as expected; and when, in our feelings, we are trying to compare pleasures with pleasures, or pains with pains, or pleasures

~!th

pains, we may reach entirely fals! results, because of the limitless
and indeterminate character of both, pleasure and pain.
The thircLear't of this passage does not concern false pleasures directly,

but r ather pleasures falsely understood or falsely judged.

The theme

of pleasure and pain is a common topic in Plat o's own tims, widely
discussed by outstanding men.

One of the opinions about pleasure, re-

jected by Socrates, is that freedom from pain is identified with
pleasure.

For some men this opinion amounts to the firm denial of

the existence of pleasures altogether.

For them that what Philebus

(44C-D) and his friends call pleasures are merely escapes from pain.
men are men

11

of harsh judgments."

These

Socrates does not mention any

names, but it is highly probable that Antisthenea is one of these men.

�Antisl:.henea is ii:'epLtted to have said:

"should I ever meet Aphrodite,.

I would strangle h::1:r.· w.ith my own ha nds. 11

I have condensed this passage of the dialogue to the utmost.

But you

understand that it challenges the conviction of Philebus radicallyo
Lat us look at him again.
listening?

He has not said a word.

We know , he had grown tired.

Is ha re ally

Has not his sweet repose

mentioned by Protarchus a long time ago transformed itself .into
sound sleep?

And

~Elfil!t

sound, dreamless sleep, l!Je should observe 9

excludes any feeling of pleasure and pain, brings about, in other words,
a condition of the

11

most divine life, n ye t a .condition not compatible

with Philebus' own aspirations.

Yes, there he lies, the beautiful

Philebus, with closed eyes and closed ears, while Socrates continues
the inquiry, imposed upon him by Philebua, Protarchus, and the other
young msn.
A subtle transition is brought to pass inasmuch as Socrates takes
those men "of harsh judgments" with whom he disagrees as alli es.

He

is going to describe more accurately what pleasure means to these men,
who oppose it or deny its existence.

Ws have already seen that pain

and j oy can be felt at the same time.

The point is now emphasized:

pain and pleasure do not only constitute an indeterminate pair, but
they also~ with each other. This is again shown by Socrates in
a tripartite way. ~mixtures of pleasure and pain a:re those in
which both pleasure and pain, involve the body, as, for example,
46A)

}.tchi.D..9. and ~stchir:)£,, which Prcta~chus tends to consider a "mixed

47C)

evil." ~mixtures are those in which the body and the soul con~
tribute the opposite elements~ "each adding pain or pleasure to the
other's pleasure and pain," as, for sxample--we have heard that before-a man suffers from thirstt is pained by his bodily emptiness, but
rejoices in his hope to be filled, a hope entertained only by his soul.
The third kind of mixture is the mast important; it is the one in
which the soul and only the soul is i nvolved.

Socrates gives as sx-

amplea of pains belonging to this third kind:

anger 9 fear, longing,

�About Plato's
mourning, love, jealousy, envy; and he asks:
(47E)

them full of ineffable pleasures?"

Eh!1-.2..~

"shall we not find

He then refars--in....,EDe

SJfillte~

only--to anger and to mournings and longings in order to show the
mixture Of pain arid of pleasure in them. Pratarchus f ully agrees.
Socrates' next question is: "And you remember, too, how people,
(48A)

at

tra~dies,

enjoy the spectacle and at the same time weee,.?"

"Yes, certainly," says Protarchus.

Whereupon Socrates asks:

"And

the condition of our souls at comedies--do you know that there, too,
(48A)

there is a mixture of pain and pleasure?"

Protarchus' answer is:

"I do not quite understand." Socrates confirms that it is not eas~
to understand such a condition under such cfrcumatancsa, and Protarchus,
on hie part, confirms that it is not easy for him.

It is not easy for

us either.
This is the short beginning of the discussion about the third kind of

(508)

mixture af pleasure and pain 9 which involves only the soul. And now,
surprisingly, Socrates launches into a Jengthy explanation of what
happens to spectators at comedies. It takes no less than four pages,
and ends with Socrates' contention that pain is mixed with pleasure-not only for spectators in the theater, where tragedies and comedies
are performed--but also "in all the tragedy and comedy of life."
Today, we are prone to call any horrible or simply sad
event a
"tragedy" and a funny one a "comedy." But that was not done in
ancient timeso The expression "tragedy and comedy of life" in the
dialogue is highly unusual and even paradoxical. It is almost unique;
a somewhat similar phrase referring to tragedy, ll£i to comedy, can be
found only in Plato's ~· Why is this expression used in the
Philebus? Let us hsar what Socrates sayse

Ha takes up .§!.nvi first.

Envy is a pain cf the soul, but we also see

an envious man rejoicing in tha evils that befall those close to him.
Thus envy is both pain and pleasure.
ridiculous.

Socrates than takes up the

The ridiculous is in the main the consequence of a dis-

�position in the human soul which contradi cts the famous inscription at
D~lphi.

A ridiculous man is a man who does not know himself.

folly of not knowing oneself can have thr ee aspects:
being~ than one

Thi s

1) the conceit of

is; 2) the conceit of bsing more

.~utiful

than

one is; 3) the conceit of being more virtuous than one is, especially
.!!!J.ser than one is ( JoJoC'tn:P{rx).
most

nurnerou~.

This third kind of conceit. is the

Now, wa tend to laugh at men t hus conceited.

cases muet be distingui shed here.

But t wo

Those whc are laughed at may be

strong and able to r evenge themselves, and a r e then

p owe rful~

and hateful; far folly i n the powerful is hateful and bass.

terrible,
Or they

are weak and unable to r evenge themselves, and then they are truly
ridiculous.

When we l augh at the follies of such men, who may be our

friends, we feel pleasure.

But to feel pleasure at the follies of

our f riends is what envy brings about, s i nce it is envy that makes us
rejoice in the evils that befall these our f riends, and envy i s painf ul .

Therefore, when we laugh at what is ridiculous i n our friends,

we .!l!!ii pleasure and pain.
It is not quite clear how all this explains what happens at comedies,
although Protarchue appears to be satisfied .

Socrates adds that all

that was said by him so far concerned only envy, mourning, and anger
(he omits 101.1ging,, which was also mentioned by him in that one sentence
he uttered before passing on to tragedies and comedies).

And now ,

Socrates declares, he need not go fuxther and Protarchus ought t o accept

the asser tion that there are plenty of mixtures of pain and of pleasure.

But now something extraordinary happens that s heds more light

on the t heme of comedy .
You will remember tha t the young man, who surround Socrates, extracted
from him the promise not to go home before bringing the discussion
about pleas ure and thoughtf ulness to a satisfactory end.

And you will

also remember that Protarchus, later on, remi nded Socrates of this

�-27...

promise and assured him that not one of the young men would let him
go before the end of the discussion was reached.
Socrate~

(500)

says now:

midnight come?
let me off."
words?

"Tell me then:

Listen to what

will you let me off, or will you let

I think only a few words are needed to induce you to
How strange!

Why on earth does Socrates utter these

Is this the Socrates, who is known for his never abating eager-

ness to discuss things?

Has he grown tired like Philebus?

Or is it

that envy has entered not only the ~o ~of , but also the stage, the
"comedy of life" presented in the dialogue?

Incredible as it might

(cf. Apol""

seem, Socrates appears to be envious seeing Philebus asleep, "divinely"

.£'lY. 40C-E)

asleep, without pleasure and pain.

Does that not mean that Socrates

is .e_ained by this envy and yet also pleased by the ridiculous aspect
of Philebus' sleep, which manifests the latter's "conceit of wisdom,"
the Jof oC"&lt;:J&lt;p[ot of friend Philebus? But what about ~' who read or
hear the words of the dialogue and are the spectators of this "comedy
of life"?

Well, we are puzzled and £leased by realizing that Socrates

of all people is envious at this moment, and we are also Qained by witnessing what happens to him.

We might refuse to accept that this is

what is going on at this moment, but this refusal would only mean that
we expect to be pained and pleased, it we accepted it.
Yes, the dialogue is pleasurable and painful

deed

&gt;1

(tPy't), in addi-

tion to dealing with pleasure and pain in speech ()I.OJ'::')•

And is

there any need to mention the pain and the pleasure one feels in reading, or listening to, the dialogue in all its deliberately complex
and inordinate convolution?

We understand now, I think, why the title

of the dialogue is Philebus.
Socrates proceeds, of course.

He takes up now--and this is a new

transition--the pure pleasures--that is, pleasures unmixed with pain.
Socrates lists five kinds of such pleasures, four of them conveyed
to us by our

(lSflsPs, ~

involving that which cannot be sensed.

The

firet four kinds of pure pleasure have their source in beautiful
figures, in beautiful colors, in clear sounds and in many odors.

The

beautiful figures are !l£i beautiful living beings or paintings, but--

�-28-

(51C)

"says the argument 0 --a straight line drawn with the help of a ruler, a
circular line drawn with the help of a compass, plane figures drawn
with the help of these same tools, and solid figures constructed with

(53A-B) the help of suitable instruments.

The beautiful co~ are pure

colors, in which there is no trace of any other color,
are those that sand forth a single pure tone .

Clear

§.2~

The pleasures which

these figures, colors, and sounds generate are pure pleasures, unmixed with pain. As to the pleasures of smell, they are, as Socrates
playfully says, "lemdivine."

The last kind of pure pleasure-and this is deeply serious--is that which has its source in the known
or the knowable, accessible to human beings without hunger for learn(52A)

ing and without pangs of such hunger.

What Socrates means is .£9.!:!,-

le~s 9 the dssi:re
to know, as we feel it in the pursuit of knowledge. This pleasure of
contemplation is felt by exceedingly few.
templatioo (8€1.Jf(rs,), which is

!lE.i preceded

by

The transition now made leads to a passage that again has three

(53C)

parts, of which again the third is the most important. The first part
extends in soma way the realm of pure pleasures by the statement that
what characterizes such pleasures is due measure. The second part
makes us understand that the pure pleasures are, because of their
purity, also ~ pleasures. In the third--the longest--part Socrates
refutes 11 certain ingenious paople" while accepting one of their premises. These "ingenious people" are reduced a little later to~
man, and t here is hardly any doubt that this man is Aristippus, His
prsmiss 9 which Socrates accepts, is that pleasure consists in a erocess o.f._~enerati9.!}_ and has no stable bei!J.£. What is rejected by
Socrates is that such a process in itself is a good, To refute this
assertion Socrates proposes to consider the relation that the process
of .£2!!!i...!29. into being (J~Yl,ts) has to .E.&amp;o.a (oJoc'Or). The question
is: which one of the two is for the sake of the other? Protarchus
re-phrases the question as follows: do ships exist for the sake of

�Abcnit Plato 1 s PhilE!,bJ;!.!!

shipbuilding or is shipbuilding for the sake of ships?

Protarchus

knows the answer to this question, of course, but Socrates gives the
answer in an all-comprising form:
(54C)

for the sake of some

~

for the sake of being."

"every inst.ance of _generation is

or other, and

~

generation

Now, the being for the sake of which the

process of generation takes place is "of the order of the good,"
while the process of generation itself is !!21 of that order.

Therefore,

says Socrates, we must be grateful to him who pointed out that there
is only a generation, but no being of pleasure.

He makes a l aughing-

stock of all those who find their highest end in pleasure and know
that pleasure is nothing but a process of generation.
highest end is not of the order of the good.
(SSA)

For their

Protarchus concludes:

"It is a great absurdity, as it appears, Socrates, to tell us that
pleasure is a good."

...

There is a new transition, in which courage, self-restraint and vov$
are mentioned and which begins to move the dialogue upwards.
is now to consider

vovs

The task

and knowledge carefully and to find out what

is by nature filirest in them.

We expect that their truest parts will

be joined with the truest parts of pleasure in the desired mixed life.
Two kinds of knowledge are distinguished.

One is necessary to produce

things, the other serves education and nurture .
the "know how" of the producing arts
a division is to be made.

Some of

The productive knowledge,

is taken up first, and here again

th~se

arts are acquired by practice

and toil, aided by guessing, and lack precision.

They do not use

sufficiently the arts of counting, measuring, and weighing.

This

holds, Socrates says , for music, as it is commonly practiced, for
medicine, agriculture, piloting, and generalship.

But in the arts of

building, shipbuilding, and housebuilding, for example, there is much
more precision, because measuring and the use of ingenious instruments
play a much greater role in them .

It is at this point that Socrates

divides the arts of counting and of measuring (not, however, that of
weighing) into two kinds.

Some counting refers to visible and tangible

units, which are all unequal; but there is also counting of units

�P.bou.t Plato's

that do not differ at all from each other.

Ph!J.E~~

This kind of counting is

the basis of the true art of numbering, of true "arithmetic."

The

art of measuring may also refer either to visible and tangible things
or to entities that cannot be sensed.

To measure, and to deal with,

the latter entities means to be engaged in "geometry," not for the
purpose of production and trade, but for the purpose of knowing.

And

this holds also for the careful study of ratios and proportions.
These true arts of numbering and measuring serve education and nur-

We eee that there is a kind of knowledge purer than another,
as one pleasure is Qurer than another. This purity of knowledge brings
abou t much greater clarity and precision and much more truth.
ture.

But there is, beyond that pure mathematical knowledge, the power of
dialectic.

It deals with Being, True being, with that which always

immutablY. is. Protarchus remembers at this point the claim of Gorgias
that the art of persuasion, the rhetorical art, surpasses all other
arts.

Socrates replies that he was not thinking of the art that sur-

passes all others by being the "greatest," the "best," and the "most
useful" to men; he was thinking of the art or the knowledge which is
most concerned about

clearne~,

.e..recision, and thg most true, however

little and of little use it might be.

Socrates asks Protarchus to

look neither at the usefulness nor at the reputation of the various
sciences, but to consider whether there is a power in our souls which
is in love with Truth and does everything for the sake of Truth.
Would this power possess thoughtfulness (~eoiHJCi'&lt;.f) and
greatest purity?

vovs

in the

Protarchus concedes that this must be so.

To be in love with Truth does not mean to possess it or to contemplate
it.

It means to pursue it, to try to find it, indefatigably, unre-

mittingly; to pursue it means to submit to the power of discourse, a
power that is able to discover in the spoken or silent words that which
make

speaking and thinking ultimately possible, namely the unchange-

able and, thereby,

~

beings.

But, ae Socrates points out, the many

�·~3 1""

existing arts end the men engaged in them do not submit to the power
of discourse, but are satisfied with their opinions.

If a man sees

fit to investigate nature, he spends his life in studying this world

of ours--that is to say, tries to find out how it came into being, how

By doing t hat, that man toils
to discover transient productions of the present, the futur e and the
past, not what unchangeably always is . And Socr ates asks: 11 How can
we gain anything gable about things which have [lO s t ability whatsoever?" The argument compels us thus to see that the stable, pure,
and true, can only be found i n what is eternally the same without
change or mixture or , Socrates surprisingly adds, "in what i s most
akin ta it." He may mean the moving , but never changing celestial
bodies.
it is acted upon and how it acts itself.

(598)

(59C)

This passage which deals with t he

peated reference to vcu f
most.
~

and

This reference is the

pure s~

knowledge ends with the re-

4' ft~ v'!llLS , ttihich have to be honored

~

transition in the dialogue to the

passage of t he dialogue.

This last passage is about t he most
fulness and pleasure are mixed.

desi~able

life , in which thought-

Socr ates undertakes now to make t his

mixture with the help of Protarchus .

We expected and still expect

tha t the .eure plaasu:i:·ss and the QUrest kno1JJledge wi.ll be joined in

this mixture.
Before the mixing begins , Socrates reminds Protarchus and us of what
had been said before.

Philsbus had claimed that pleasure was the true

goal of every living being and that these two wor ds, "good" and
"pleasant, 11 mean the same thing.

calirned that

11

Socratsst on the other hand,

gaod" and "pleasant" mean d.i.ffersnt t hings and that the

share of thoughtfulness in the good is greater than pleasure's.

They

had agreed , Socrates continues, that any living being , in whom t he

�About Plato's £.hilebus
good is present always, altogether, and in all ways, has no further
need of anything, but is perfectly self-s ufficient; but that neither

a lifa of pleasure unmixed with thoughtfulness nor a thoughtful life
unmixed with pleasure was a desirable life.
Directly related to the task of making the mixture is the t as k of
winning a clear understanding of the good in the well mixed l ife, .£!:.
(61A)

at least an outline of it, so as to be better able to find out

J?.e.

what in the well mixed life the second prize should be assigned.
remember that Socrates had raised the question before.

We

At that time

the possible recipients of the s econd prize were va~s and pleasure.
Note that in this last passage of the dialogue

vovs has not been

mentioned so far.
This is now what Socrates eays jovially and playfully just before he
begins to make the mixture:

"Lat us make t he mixture, Protarchus,

(518/C) with a proper prayer to the gods, Dionysus or Hephaestus, or whoever
ha be who presides over the mixing."

Dionysus leads on revellers

and presides over orgies; he stands here for pleasure.
is known for his thoughtful and sober craftsmanship.
tinues:

(6 1C)

Hephaestus

Socrates con-

"We are like wine pourers, and beside us are fountains--

that of pleasure may be likened to a fount of honey, and the sober,
winelesa fount of thoughtfulness to one of pure, health-giving water
of which we must do our best to mix as well as possible."
The first question is:

should Socrates and Protarchus mix

sure with all thoughtfulness?
be safe.

ill plea-

Socrates observes that this would not

It would bs better to mix first that pleasure which was

more truly pleasure with that knowledge which wa.a m9st true and
.J2!9Ci~.

Protarchus agrees.

But Socrates is not satisfied.

~

let ua

assume , he says, a man who is thought ful about justice itself·-that
is, about the ~!/os of justice, and is guided in his reasoning about

�everything that. t n .:ly_ :ts by his app:t ehenslon of the intE1lligible ~ by

his VOEtV , (it ia the fil'st t.ime that
passage of the dialogue).

vovs

is mentioned in this last

If this man is fully cognizant of the

mathematical circle and the all-embr acing celestial sphere, but is
ignorant of our human sphere and J:iJ:!..man circles, w.ill this man have
sufficient knowledge?

No, says Protarchus, it would be

ritii~ulous

"Do you mean,"
Socrates asks, "that the unstable and impure art of the untrue rule
and circle is to be put with the other arts into the mixture? '' Yes,
says Protarchus, that is necessary, if any man is ever ta find his
way home. Socrates and Protarchus go farther. They put music, which
they said a while ago was full of guesswork and lacked purity, and
all the deficient kinds of knowledge mingling with the pure into the
mixture.
for a man to be concerned only with divine knowledge.

(628)

Then Socrates turns to the pleasures.

Here again the pure and true

pleasures are not the only ones to be put into the mixture.

For the

first and only time in the dialogue Socrates mentions "necessary plea(62E)

sures," by which he means pleasures connected with the satisfaction of
vital

needs~

arises:

and adds thsmto the pure ones.

And the further question

is it not advantageous and harmless to let all pleasures be a

part of the mixture, just as it was harmless and adv antageous to let
~

the arts and all knowledge be such a part?

Whereupon Socrates

says: "there is no use in asking us, Protarchus; we must ask the
53
( A/B) pleasures themselves and the different kinds of thoughtfulness about
one another."
(638)

That's what Socrates does.

He asks first the pleasures:

"would you choose to dwell with the whole of thoughtfulness or with none
at all?"

And Socrates lets them answer that for any tribe to be soli-

tary and unalloyed is neither possible nor profitable; ''we think the
best to live with is the knowledge of all other things and, so far as
(638/C)

is possible, the perfect knowledge of ourselves."
it is Socrates whom we hear speaking.

Let us not forget,

It is highly doubtful whether

the pleasures can speak--and can have any knowledge of themselves.

�And now Socrates turns to thoughtfulness and Vovs.(!t is the second
time that vo~s ie mentioned in this last passage of the dialogue).
Socrates asks then whether they want the greatest and most intense
pleasures to dwell with them in addition to the true and pure pleasures.
And Socrates replies for them--that is, for thoughtfulness and

that the true and pure pleasures are almost their

own~

Yous ,

and also those

which are united to health and self-restraint and all those which are
handmaids of virtue; they should be added to the mixture;

as

to the

pleasures which madden the souls of men, which are the companions of
folly and of all the other vices , it would be senseless to mix them
with the

Yo

vs .

This is the third time that

voCs

is mentioned in the passage, while

thoughtfulness (~e~v,~cs), which was also addressed by Socrates, is
left out.

...
vaus
(64A)

When Socrates has finished replying in the name of both

'
and 4tt&lt;&gt;t17(l'£$,
he says to Protarchus:

this reply which the

vo~s

has now made for itself and memory and right

opinion is thoughtful and sensible?"
so."

Which vo~s

"Shall we not say that

is this vo~j ?

And Protarchus says: "Very much

Ia it t he "divine

voGs " that Soc-

rates contrasted wit h his 6wn in his reply to Philebus a long time
ago?

No, it is Socrates who was speaking guided by his own

It is

!JE.i

the

vo:is

vov$.

that the "easy" cosmological account found to be

"the cause of all" and that the sagas, in exalting themselves, declare
to be "king of heaven and earth."

It is not the fourth tribe of the

Promethean gift, which Socrates introduced, fearing to appear ridiculous
by doing that .
i~ure

Soc:r.ates' own vo

vs

is responsible for the kind of mix-

he makes to produce the life which combines thoughtfulness and

pleasure , is the cause of this l ife.

It is neither the cause of the

commixture of the "limitless" and of the "limit, 11 nor the cause of
these first two tribes of the Promethean gift.
What does the original introduction of the

voCr

as the "cause of all"

and the subsequent somewhat veiled rejection of this

vovS

mean?

I

�-35-

think it means a subtle mocking of Plato's great pupil

Aristotle~

Aristotle's thoughts must certainly have been familiar to Plato in
(Cods)&lt; Mar·cianus)
his lata years. A passage in an ancient manuscript ~ that informs us
about Aristotle's life, hints at lively controversies between Plato
....
and Aristotle. Plato appears to have nicknamed Ar.istotle o" vovs
and to have once said, when Aristotle was not present at a meeting:
"The

vo~s

is absent; dullness reigns in the lecture room."

know that the investigation of the different meanings of

(~~~~~ ) and of the divine vous
works.

We do

~

plays a decisive role in Aristotle's

What the dialogue intimates is that vo;J,J is above all a

.b.!:!-

man posssssi onf and that Socrates is the embodiment of this vo~s

o

Socrates compl etes the mi&gt;&lt;ture by pointing to the necessity that trutJJ.
must be a part of it, and then asks what is the most precious in it and
the

£.~ief cau~

for this mixed l ife to be most lovable.

The answer is:

due measure and JE.9.£.0rtion which bring a.b out beauty and excellence.

body is ignorant of this.

We should more

properly~

No-

howe\/er , consider

these three 9 beau~~ truth~ due measure , as the components of the goodWe sea , first: vo~s

ness of the mixture.

pleasure; secondly:

is more akin to t r uth than

not hing could be found mor e immoderate than plea-

sure and nothing is more in harmony with due measure t han

voCs

and

v oCs has a greater share in beauty than

knowledge ; and thirdly :
pleasure .

And now, finally , Socrates gives a list of the bsst human possessions

fiE.tl something like Measurep Due

in their proper order.

Measure~

Propriety, and like ever ything which must be considered of the same
order.

~cQ!J.fllJ!_

comes what is well proportioned, beautiful, has been

completed and i s suffi ciant 9 and all that belongs to that very family.
(668)

Socrates continues:
insist on

yov~

"As to the thit.9.- -this is my prophesy--if you
I'

and &lt;Pe a ..; '1 n~ , you will not wander far from the truth . "

I s vavs relegated to the third place?

No, it is elevated to the

�-36-

proper rank, if you consider the role the t.r!fili played in the entire
Foutth.'l;.v come the different kinds of knowledge, the arts,

dialogue.

the true opinions; and f:lfthll, the painless pure pleasures of the
soul, some of which accompany

and some of llihich--as we

~CL~

have ssen-- accompany £2..rce_g~ (observe that knowledge was not

mentioned before among the pure pleasures, presumably because the

.

gurs4ll of knowledge involves the

desi~

in which pain and pleasure are mixed)o

to know, involves

There is no sixth place, says

He reminds us that neither

Socrates , quoting Orpheus.

~

G(&gt;&lt;.J$ ,

voCs

nor plea-

sure is the good itself , since both are devoid of self-sufficiency .
But within the mixed life , which is the victor ,

vous

has now been

given the second prize , while pleasure--as Socrates' own voCf

had

predicted a long time ago--is farther behind than the third place .
Note that this holds even for pure pleasure and that the satisfaction
of vital needs is not mentioned at all .

Pleasure is fifth .

We should

be. aware that, according to the tradition 9 the people called "Pytha-

goreans" associated the goddess Aphrodite Lilith the number five.
The list given by Socrates is strangely unprecise and inordinate .

It

is indeed only an

The

&gt;I

rJ.rf'(:-1..[?oll

,

outliD~

of the good in the most desirable life.

the "limitless , " the "indeterminate," reigns, though not

supremely , in the dialogue .

I shall not koep you until midnight.

a discussion •••

Good night!

But there will be

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            <elementText elementTextId="87326">
              <text>12.5 x 9 cm.</text>
            </elementText>
          </elementTextContainer>
        </element>
        <element elementId="7">
          <name>Original Format</name>
          <description>The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data</description>
          <elementTextContainer>
            <elementText elementTextId="87327">
              <text>Photograph</text>
            </elementText>
          </elementTextContainer>
        </element>
      </elementContainer>
    </itemType>
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      <elementSet elementSetId="1">
        <name>Dublin Core</name>
        <description>The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.</description>
        <elementContainer>
          <element elementId="43">
            <name>Identifier</name>
            <description>An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="87323">
                <text>SJC-P-2073</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="50">
            <name>Title</name>
            <description>A name given to the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="87324">
                <text>Administrative Office in Woodward Hall Library, St. John's College, Annapolis, Maryland</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="41">
            <name>Description</name>
            <description>An account of the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="87325">
                <text>1 Kodachrome print : b&amp;w</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="40">
            <name>Date</name>
            <description>A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="87328">
                <text>1969-10</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="39">
            <name>Creator</name>
            <description>An entity primarily responsible for making the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="87329">
                <text>Unknown</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="38">
            <name>Coverage</name>
            <description>The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="87330">
                <text>Annapolis, MD</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="51">
            <name>Type</name>
            <description>The nature or genre of the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="87331">
                <text>Still Image</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="42">
            <name>Format</name>
            <description>The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource</description>
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              <elementText elementTextId="87332">
                <text>jpeg</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="47">
            <name>Rights</name>
            <description>Information about rights held in and over the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="87333">
                <text>St. John's College owns the rights to this photograph.</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
        </elementContainer>
      </elementSet>
    </elementSetContainer>
    <tagContainer>
      <tag tagId="17">
        <name>Woodward Hall Library</name>
      </tag>
    </tagContainer>
  </item>
</itemContainer>
